HRx Radio- Ministerial Discussions: On Friday mornings, John Sumser interviews key administrations from around the industry. The conference covers what manufactures the executive tick and what impels their corporation great.
HRx Radio- Ministerial Dialogues Guest: Henry Albrecht, CEO at Limeade Episode: 356 Air Date: March 6, 2020
Guest Bio
Henry Albrecht founded Limeade in 2006 and has led the company from an idea in his vault to a high-growth, industry-leading SaaS employee engagement company that serves some of the smartest fellowships in the world.
Before Limeade, Henry sufficed as VP of Product Management at Bocada, an enterprise software company and a product, marketing and business leader at Intuit, where he propelled a number of successful new business initiatives.
Henry deserved his MBA from Northwestern’s Kellogg School of Management with an emphasis in technology and market and his B.A. in economics and literature from Claremont McKenna College.
Outside of design, Henry experiences frisking basketball and spending time with his family.
Website | Twitter | Facebook | Linkedin
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Full Transcript with timecode
John Sumser:[ 00:00: 00] Good morning and welcome to HR Examiner’s Executive Conversations. Today we’re going to be talking with Henry Albrecht, who’s the CEO of Limeade. Henry, take a moment to introduce yourself would you?
Henry Albrecht:[ 00:00: 25] Hey there everyone. My name is Henry Albrecht and I’m the CEO of Limeade. Limeade is an employee experience technology company focused on things like wellbeing and employee engagement and inclusion and enormous communications with your employees based in Bellevue, Washington.
John Sumser:[ 00:00: 41] So Bellevue, Washington does that mean you used to work for Microsoft?
Henry Albrecht:[ 00:00: 44] Oh, I should not. Although we definitely desired Microsoft, we’re large-scale supporters and we have certainly hired a fair quantity of people from Microsoft, so it’s a great, it’s a great sit to be a tech company up here in the Northwest, huddled in between Amazon, Microsoft, and about 10 others.
[ 00:01: 02] John Sumser:[ 00:01: 02] What a great thing. So how is it that you’re running an employee experience company that you sprung in a wellness thought? I can’t imagine that in your earliest days, what you thought is that’s what I genuinely are intended to do. And you’ve been building to this moment ever since. So how’d you get here?
Henry Albrecht:[ 00:01: 20] Yeah, well, I like to think of myself as a strange party. [00:01:23] I believe basically when I started the company, I ability something wrong with part. Although I am a capitalist, I judge maybe I’m a bit of a jaded financier because in some of my early responsibilities, I visualized maybe some of the less humane elements of doing business. A short story is I was working at a company where I was working very long hours with high levels of stress and maybe a little evaluates disconnect with how the business was being run.
[ 00:01: 49] I was coming a rash and arguing with my family too much and frankly didn’t recognize the person I encountered in the mirror. And so I discontinue and said, I wonder if there’s a way to fabricate something that measures all of the statistically valid predictors of loving your job and adoration your life, or I guess you would call that employee engagement and wellbeing.
[ 00:02: 10] It was probably not the smartest hypothesi, certainly not in the start of a receding, to look at these topics like resilience and hope and mindfulness and employ and stress and depression and, you know, adoring your job and having role when people are just trying to cut costs. But, it was really fun, frankly.
[ 00:02: 28] And, there is a need for a more human approach to work. And although we’ve certainly met our channel through some pivots and changes over time to find our concoction sell fit, I would say we’re still working on the same problem. I symbolize, I guess what I went through is burnout and we have now tools and dashboards to help.
[ 00:02: 46] Big companionships with 100,000 employees predict burnout on a world scale. So we’re working on the same questions, probably just with a little more sophistication and a little less crazy naivete.
John Sumser:[ 00:02: 59] So as the CEO of a company like this, what do you do every day?
Henry Albrecht:[ 00:03: 03] Oh gosh, I wish I had an interesting life.
I’d probably wake up and have some cereal with berries and talk to my family and speak the present working paper and go to work. I usually wake up at 5:30 or 6 and is present in bunked thinking about some sort of work topic. You know, how a feature could be designed to be more social. How, a sales action can be tightened or something like that.
So I am unfortunately one of those which are makes their work home with them and likes to think about work. But I guess that’s engagement. I still go to all my kid’s athletics sports when I’m in city and, and try to be a tolerable kinfolk party as well.
John Sumser:[ 00:03: 41] It’s interesting, there’s this kind of archetypical notion out there that work and life are somehow unrelated constituents that “ve got to be” matched by separating them in a large way.
And that doesn’t really seem rational or interested in me. And I imagine that that’s part of what you look at, right? Because, if the person who’s in charge, who’s running the wellness and know-how corporation is waking up thinking about work, then he must have a different idea about what a good balance is. That freedom?
Henry Albrecht:[ 00:04: 13] Yeah. I imply, I believed to be made it on the chief. I would say I rarely fulfill people who say, I cherish my job and I detest “peoples lives”, or I adoration my life, but I deplete 50 hours a week on something I exactly can’t stand to do. They don’t go hand in hand very well. What we learnt earlier today in our discipline research is that.
There’s a concept of having definition in your work and there’s the having intend in your life thing. And if you are eligible to have both sets of. In other utterances, if you have some sort of overlap between what you really find purposeful and meaningful in your epoch enterprise that you can bring out to your life or vice versa.
[ 00:04: 51] It’s just a more, I don’t know, the word is synergy. It’s just a better style to live. And I find when I talk to my adolescents about occupation, I don’t end up talking to them about, Hey, what’s the path to the highest business success? I imagine maybe parties of my contemporary grew up with the, you know, the physicians and solicitors and CEOs manufacture the most money so that’s a track worth pursuing. I try to have conversations more about, you know, what do you “ve been wanting to” do? What do you want to explore to learn what you love to do? But between now and age 30 what, what risks do are you gonna take so you can find a purpose and you have a job that you love during the day that you, you’re happy to talk about at a cocktail party or at a barbecue with your friends.
[ 00:05: 34] John Sumser: Yeah so Limeade, Limeade from a sort of a positioning perspective, I understood it to be a wellness company and you’ve moved to extend that definition too, to experience. Tell me about the, artery of the centres to get now.
Henry Albrecht:[ 00:05: 52] Yeah. Well, where reference is first started, my co founder, Laura Hamill, and I set out to measure anything that was a statistically valid predictor of wellbeing. And this is when, you know, traditional wellness was kind of punitive or Pavlovian and would say, Hey, do these four or five things and we’ll remunerate you four or 500 bucks. And it never actually built any kind of wonts or ongoing behavior conversion or various kinds of meaningful activity. It just got beings to hop through bands. So in looking at all this material, this statistical predictors of wellbeing, what we discovered is that a lot of the same predictors were predictors of hire involvement. You know, symbolizing role, thriving, learning, having social meaningful relationships and social alliances at work, or a feeling of team.
[ 00:06: 43] So when we started with our wellbeing assessment, which was the first of its style in 2006 and 2007 we had embedded in it a world class employee engagement survey as well. And that’s what Laura Hamill used to do at Microsoft actually. So. I think that DNA has suited us. And then later through our Limeade Institute, we are doing research on other related topics like diversity and inclusion and so, and that helped us kind of supplemented a module or a solution related to inclusion and how to communicate with parties even how to recognize people for a task well done.
[ 00:07: 23] All our science located ways to show care. And so instead of thinking of it as, Oh, we only sell to the wellness and benefits silo, that is the anchor and core of our business. Preferably we try to take a more science based approaching saying, you know, what does help look like and how does it show up to parties and what does it “ve been meaning to” parties?
[ 00:07: 44] So we don’t inevitably feel constrained by the silos to seeing how corporate America or the corporate world-wide must be drawn up. Even though sometimes we certainly live in those silos, we don’t want to feel constrained by them. So it’s not really about me. It’s about a bigger concept of attention. Do you picture care for parties through exertion?
[ 00:08: 07] John Sumser:[ 00:08: 07] So, I haven’t really thought about this at all, but you’re sort of saying, you’re sharing a couple of things. One thing that you seem to be saying is that wellness is a particularly individual question.
[ 00:08: 21]
[ 00:08: 21] And another thing that you seem to be saying is that a significant element, although we’ll talk a little bit about whether it’s the,
[ 00:08: 31] simply element, the employee experience is an expression of caring from the company. And yes, that’s the neighborhood that you, that you really work in right?,
[ 00:08: 44] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:08: 44] Yeah, I judge that’s correct. Go on. I’ll let you finish. Sorry.
[ 00:08: 49] John Sumser:[ 00:08: 49] Yeah. Well, I was just going to launch into one of the top three or four things that the software does, but why don’t we just wander away from the script and interpret where this get?
[ 00:08: 59] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:08: 59] Yeah. I want, I can give some examples, but what you said is so right on. So in the early days, we would think about, basically helping people. Do self care, care for yourself, get a good night’s sleep. You know, we had things like ambling challenges, who can get the most steps and let’s connect it to designs and let’s make it social and let’s have commentary.
[ 00:09: 21] How do you distress? Let’s have a meditation or a mindfulness or resilience video that develops beings to monitor their sigh and their spirits and mood. So I would call that. Software based tools to help individuals care for themselves. And it is very personal. You know, you might be a smoker who’s overweight with back grief and nerve health issues.
[ 00:09: 44] But you’re ready to work on debriefing and then maybe you’ll be ready to work on walking, et cetera. So you never know what someone’s willing to do are ready to do. And it might be nothing cause they have some childhood issues to deal with. So you’re, you’re absolutely right. It’s a hundred percentage individual.
[ 00:10: 00] But I fantasize the most interesting insight we’ve had in the last decade is that no matter how great and fun and social and even viral your software is, if you treat it as private individuals, impersonal thing, exclusively. You’ll always be have suboptimal upshots. And we started looking in through the lens that we have of organizational psychology and how immense cultures are built in healthcare.
[ 00:10: 25] They would call it like that, a social determinant of health and maybe an employee engagement. They would call it a great culture. So what the hell is decided, or what we found in our research is that it’s actually even more important. How you build a culture around person at work than it is, how great the software tools for individual betterment are.
[ 00:10: 48] And we developed this research around the science of care. We call it organizational support for wellbeing. So it’s only when you blend the company caring for the person that enables the person to care more for themselves, that you get what I would call a holistic approaching to improving wellbeing.
[ 00:11: 07] The good word are similar general footprint to be applied in people loving their jobs. So enjoying yourself, cherishing their own lives, cherishing your jobs. The same footprint of, you are well aware, asking parties questions, gathering data, becoming targeted recommendations, consuming maybe Netflix style recommendations. Maybe the thing you thought they might want to do is something different and you are eligible to learn from them as well.
[ 00:11: 30] So, I don’t know if that answered your question, but I guess a feature that we would deliver that would reveal the more managerial area of upkeep. Would be things like a targeted educational video for a overseer on how to talk to their team about these types of topics or how to enable a ruler to show actual human care in a way that’s real.
[ 00:11: 55] That’s not just about earnings per share or maybe how a social network or an employee resource group. You helps in and kind of nudge them forward in supporting each other. So we’re just trying to use software to show both personal and organizational care.
[ 00:12: 15] John Sumser:[ 00:12: 15] So I guess, remedy me where I’m wrong here. I think that if a wellness is an individual question, it seems like the expression of care from an organization, is also kind of an individual thing. How do you think about the difference in what attend signifies between organizations?
[ 00:12: 42] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:12: 42] Well, I’m going to both agree and agree. So that’s when we had to cut the most part. So I will contend. There are a lot of universal components. One universal constituent is just what I would call the perception of maintenance. Like I feel that the other person charges for me., So there are universal elements of it, but it plainly shows up very different in a, you know, a truck manufacturer than in a hospice than in a high tech company, or, you are well aware, a world-wide airline. And so we serve all of those types of fellowships. You know, it simply is going to show up differently. One, you might want to tie your platform more closely into things that are currently have impetu there. Like in an airline, it might be a safety focus or a customer service focus.
[ 00:13: 25] In a high tech company, it might be a flexibility and innovation focus. Hey, I demand your best idea. So if you have that project while you’re on a hike or on your bus move into work, you know, delivering it into work and how can I help you do that? Can I give you greater flexibility? Can I, you are well aware, can I create an environment where you’re willing to plant that seed of invention because there’s trust in the workforce?
[ 00:13: 50] So you’re right that it does vary by workforce, but there are also universal elements to it.
[ 00:13: 57] John Sumser:[ 00:13: 57] So the question is really, how do you tell the difference between what works in one company versus what works in another company? And do you have a framework for thinking about that?
[ 00:14: 09] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:14: 09] Well, one room, probably the simplest way is to ask, you know, having quick pulsation examinations of things where right now we’re doing our inclusion in our commitment surveys.
[ 00:14: 21] You know, question parties, Hey, do you feel like you can be recognized and knows we your totality ego at work at this busines and why and why not? Or do you really love your job and would you give your extra inventive mind to this company for your paycheck? Or do you not feel that there’s a square deal that would meet you want to do that?
[ 00:14: 42] Do you have wellbeing? Are you sleeping well? Are you so stressed out that you can’t, don’t have even a minute free to innovate? So those are all what I would call wellbeing engagement, inclusion examinations, that if you’ve built enough trust, you’ll get a really high-pitched response frequency. And you’ll know and what you’ll find out if you know, most of our fellowships was discovered that we perform is that they’ll have dark-green areas and yellow areas and red areas within their company.
[ 00:15: 08] And at least then they can take action, both because we inform the leaders and the managers, but likewise because these systems should have automated action plans. If you have a whole department that’s at risk of burnout, there are both things you can do organizationally, like purvey resources and support to mitigate burnout or maybe additional resources so that it’s better staffed, but there are also things you can do individually to identify it, to recognize it, and maybe to set borders around your mental health and physical health.
[ 00:15: 44] But it reverberated good to me.
[ 00:15: 47] John Sumser:[ 00:15: 47] Oh , no , no. That was great. That was great. We talked a couple of weeks ago about the fact that you’re focused on inclusion, but not diversification. Help me with that., I take it that,, that has something to do with this central theme of caution, but why don’t you help me understand that.
[ 00:16: 06] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:16: 06] Yeah, I’m not sure that’s exactly how I would say it. I would say that inclusion is cultural. It’s about what wars you’re taking as a culture to help people be their best. Diversity is about, you are well aware, different articulates and identities and backgrounds and ethnicities and other things.
[ 00:16: 27] You know, having a voice that’s heard. To me, it’s not about either or inclusion or diversity. It’s, it’s really that if you invest merely in diversity, it’s like investing, you are well aware, in these huge potential. Think of it as like grains of possibilities great Redwood oaks but you’re not investing in the clay for them to grow or the sea, for them to grow. What happens is, you squander a lot of time and fund and you create a crappy experience for those people. So to me, if you start with inclusion and what you can do culturally to create a fertile clay, to allow ideas to be irrigated and allow people to produce their entire souls to work, then when you computed in diversity and you can do these things, you are well aware, in a series a month, you don’t have to wait years.
[ 00:17: 15] But then the diversity actually, has the right soil to grow in. And to me it’s, it’s about both. It’s, diversification is kind of required but not sufficient, without a culture of inclusion. And what we’ve also observed is that companies that are great at wellbeing, it’s easier for them to be great at inclusion or hire action because they’ve already established the channels of communication, the norms that it’s okay to talk about these issues that some people find, a little too soft for corporate macrocosm.
[ 00:17: 48] there’s a ton of cross pollination across these topics and the science reinforces that too. There’s a ton of correlation between inclusion, date, and wellbeing.
[ 00:18: 00] John Sumser:[ 00:18: 00] Oh, talk about that a little bit. How do you calibrate inclusion and how does it correlate with wellness? That’s a very interesting notion.
[ 00:18: 09] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:18: 09] Well, I thoughts the first thing is you ask parties if you don’t inclusions is very, it’s just like wellbeing. It’s a very subjective thing. On the outside, you could be an Olympic athlete and exactly have, 7% torso fat and be able to run, you know, a mile in four minutes and not is very well. You could be super stressed out, you could have an eating disorder, there could be all kinds of things wrong with you.
[ 00:18: 35] And inclusion is similar on the surface. You could look like you have a high paying job and you’re prospering in your busines, but, maybe there’s a glass ceiling at your workplace, or maybe you perceive that, the leaders are just compensate lip service to this topic. You is to be able to exclusively get that through qualitative feedback.
[ 00:18: 52] And so obviously having surveys and dashboards that give leaders and committees gauges of that are crucial. So to me, you have to ask no, and you have to, you are well aware, you have to have enough trust that you can ask and you think you’ll get the truth, which requires anonymity or privacy commitments as well.
[ 00:19: 12] John Sumser:[ 00:19: 12] All right. That’s interesting. So I’m looking a good deal at ethics, particularly in AI and predictive sciences right now. What are the ethical issues in your work?
[ 00:19: 24] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:19: 24] Yeah, I believed to be hit on one privacy, the use of large-hearted data if it goes to a personal level, has massive ethical implications that, you are well aware, at Limeade we devote not just to the actual privacy for people, but to the comprehended privacy as well.
[ 00:19: 41] We don’t let administrators, drill down into individuals and certainly in anything related to health or wellbeing. We follow things like HIPAA and Cobra, GINA and GDPR, EEOC, any acronym you can think of, there is a requirement to, and want to live by. To me it’s about not singling beings out.
[ 00:20: 00] You have to make that more administrative judgment. I want to know what bureaux in my corporation have the least sense of inclusion or the highest sense of wellbeing. So to me, privacy is absolutely a huge ethical issue. And the second one I would say is, I guess you could call it like, do you want to work with yanks?
[ 00:20: 24] You know Limeade has a no dorks program. We have a kind of a price of empathy. And if you crave, I can share why we do that, but if you don’t want, that’s okay too.
[ 00:20: 38] John Sumser:[ 00:20: 38] Well, so let’s get to that, but what I want to ask you is, you promote the interesting notion that some parts of the employee experience are private. And I recollect, that’s probably a astonish . . In fact, this is the first time that I’ve ever heard the notion that some parts of employee experience are private. And so how do you succeed that? Because much of what matters in work knows is very public.
[ 00:21: 10] Because it’s about me and my job in the company right? And so that, is not a private thing at all. And, more there’s this cavity that you’re accurately distinguishing where, some aspects of what you can measure about me are mine and not yours. And some of my opinion on how the world operates and how I feel about that are mine to disclose at the time of my select rather than yours to removed from me in the time of your choosing. Right. And so,
[ 00:21: 43] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:21: 43] Yeah, I agree with that.
[ 00:21: 45] John Sumser:[ 00:21: 45] The symmetry between Internal and external material. How do you figure that out? Because it’s gotta vary by culture.
[ 00:21: 53] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:21: 53] Well,, it varies my culture, yes. And we’re a world business. We have positions in Canada and Germany in the U S and we suffice beings in a hundred different firms. So. You know, being world-wide isn’t just about data centers and legal conformity, it’s about artistic norms. And I think there’s a debate going on in the world. It’s being legislated about who does control information, who limits my data.
[ 00:22: 18] And Limeaid has always been a science located organization. We is seeking to, refer to the best science-based rules. And frankly, I don’t know if there are as many of, on this topic as there could be. And that’s an area of research for our Limeade Institute is, you are well aware, what are the world perceptions of what can be private and not.
[ 00:22: 38] So we’re stimulated to be part of that legislation, that debate, but we are also going to err on the side of trust. You know, exclusively employees relying their employers, and trusting their employees. So that conveys probably a little bit more privacy. And when you are opting in, let’s say to social note in the software application, it’s very obvious and explicit.
[ 00:23: 04] You’re opting in because it’s a social feed and you’ve been alerted that there is certain things you can participate in on. So. I suppose it’s an exciting debate. I would say something like your state assistant or how many, how well you’re sleeping according to your Fitbit device. Those are things that you are well aware, you wouldn’t require your director to know.
[ 00:23: 25] On the flip side, we want managers to be able to ask employers, hires, how are you? And we want employees to be able to speak patently and say, you know what? I’m not great. I could be better. So it is an interesting debate.
[ 00:23: 40] John Sumser:[ 00:23: 40] Yeah, well, and so I’m going to argue with you that there’s a generic standard of any kind, because, you know, as you’ve been talking, I’ve been thinking about cosmonauts and Seal units and in that work environment personal data about physical wellness can’t yield to be private. It’s most monitored, it’s most shared, compel what you demand is a team performing at the absolute maximum of its optimal physical functionality, right? And that’s a requirement of the job. Right? And I imagine there’s a range from that extreme to it doesn’t matter whether I am totally unwell, because the job happens in the infinite where that’s an irrelevant.
[ 00:24: 30] And so you’ve got the range and across that range it’s going to be place and cultural activities specific. What, where the boundary is between personal and public in the data and that would be a fascinating thing to see how you battled with, what do you think?
[ 00:24: 47] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:24: 47] Yeah, I entail, well, first and foremost, I have a friend who’s a former Navy seal. I don’t think that has become a Navy seal is a good proxy for success in the modern business world in most cases. It’s not “the worlds largest”,
[ 00:25: 01] John Sumser:[ 00:25: 01] Yeah, we’re not speaking about generic success. We’re talking about the experience of an employee in a company. And it is therefore differs, right? There isn’t a generic version of precisely, that’s part of your senses is that success is an individual thing, wellness is an individual thing. And so this where’s the standard and am I pleasant with the standard question? That’s an interesting one.
[ 00:25: 29] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:25: 29] I find that it’s actually, you can provide through software, a highly individual recommendation, plans of action, a place of things that someone could do, just like Netflix can provide, a deep-seated of action movies they think you will like and you are able to like them and you are able to not, but you can do that through software without the employer ever knowing what’s being recommended to John or Henry or Molly or anybody else. So to me, the supremacy of application is, you can have a mass personalization without ever ratting anybody out for their issues. You know, maybe someone guzzles too much and they actually want to work on it and they don’t want to get fired for it. And so I believed to be you can do that. That is possible that the modern wellbeing approaches can do that in. So that’s the individual argument. I would say from a more general population wise, there is value in confidence versus cynicism. And I think if we go into all of these discussions saying, we can never talk about anything related to stress or wellbeing or, cartel with our managers at work, with the people we work with. We’re sub-optimizing for us and for our task. You know, we’re human beings.
[ 00:26: 48] We need human relationships. We exactly have to be able to trust our organizations. And I think that’s where companies could use a little work. Honestly, I don’t think generation Z and millennial and even the next generations beyond them coming up are, are really going to put up with the same, kind of didactic working conditions that maybe I put up with when I was in my twenties.
[ 00:27: 13] John Sumser:[ 00:27: 13] Interesting stuff! We could go around and around about a couple of these things. But we’re at the end of our time together, so thanks for taking the time to do this. You want to encapsulate Limeade one more time so parties understand the core thing that we’re talking about here. Limeade is a company that, X.
[ 00:27: 33] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:27: 33] That every employee will know, you be concerned about them when you use it. We do hire wellbeing, participation, inclusion with huge communication, and I think it’s important, John, merely to wrap up with, okay, so this care thing, that’s great, but like I’m a CEO of a big business. I’m paid in respect of earnings per share on market share on growth. What we’ve noticed though is that when, when works actually perceive upkeep, they’re nine times more likely to stay at their fellowship for three or more years.
[ 00:28: 03] They’re four times less likely to suffer from stress and burnout. There are hard number ROI associated with something that maybe parties my age and older and grew up thinking were wimpy and soft. Frankly, they’re not. They’re human needs. And I think it’s our job to meet those needs. So I revalue you, spend the time with me today. It’s awesome.
[ 00:28: 25] John Sumser:[ 00:28: 25] Thanks. So reintroduce yourself and tell people how to get hold of you.
[ 00:28: 29] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:28: 29] Yeah. Again, I’m Henry Albrecht, CEO of Limeade. You can reach me at Henry at Limeade dot com. You can check out our website and we have tons of resources and downloadable, science-backed commodities about these topics.
[ 00:28: 43] John Sumser:[ 00:28: 43] So, thanks for taking the time to do this Henry.
[ 00:28: 45] It’s been a treat of a conference and there are a lot of Sparky questions now that we ought to talk about again.
[ 00:28: 51] Henry Albrecht:[ 00:28: 51] All right. I hope to talk to you again too John.
[ 00:28: 53] John Sumser:[ 00:28: 53] Thanks Henry.
[ 00:28: 55] You’ve been listening to HR Examiner’s Executive Conversations and we’ve been be discussed with Henry Albrecht, he is the CEO of Limeade.
[ 00:29: 02] Thanks very much for adjusting in and we’ll see you back here next week.
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