\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:00]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0What do you think about this debt?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:01]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0It is terrible.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:02]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0It’s frustrating and sad, and it makes me want to cry and scream and fight.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:06]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0Are you angry?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:07]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0I’m angry at Michael. I’m angry at myself.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:11]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0My relationship with money is not a good relationship.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:14]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0He’s at the point now where he should be able to retire, but he can’t.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:18]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0I don’t think I’ve ever planned anything in my life.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:20]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0I don’t want to work till I’m 75. I also want us to be able to travel and live our Rich Lives. At this age, I thought we’d already be there.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:31]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0Do you believe that you’ll die with your debt?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:33]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0It’s going to be a stretch.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:34]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0There was a time, one time, where I considered taking my purse and my keys and walking out. I’m at my wits end. I don’t want to keep doing this.<\/span><\/p>\n[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n[00:00:47]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0<\/span>\u200a<\/b>Imagine making great money but still being in debt. Where’s the money going? Why are we in this situation? Why do we feel trapped by our debt? Today we’re\u00a0going to\u00a0dive into a story that is very familiar for millions of couples, high income, high stress, and no real plan.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:01:05]\u00a0Listen to this line from the application.\u00a0“He has run up credit cards, buying electronics. He has little to no retirement saved, and we make way too much to be so stressed about money. I do not know how much longer I can keep doing this.”\u00a0When I see phrases like,\u00a0“I don’t know how much longer I can keep doing this,”\u00a0that is a sign\u00a0the stakes are very high.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:01:28]\u00a0Today I’m speaking with Imani, 52 years old, and Michael, who is 65.\u00a0They’ve been married for 24 years, but\u00a0they have not spent a single one of those years aligned about money. What’s interesting is that they’ve worked with money coaches in the past, yet they keep finding themselves stuck in the same cycle.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:01:48]\u00a0Michael overspending and avoiding, and Imani trying to take control of their finances. I’m about to look at their numbers, but first, I\u00a0want to\u00a0hear from you.\u00a0When was the last time you were not on the same page with your partner? And tell me the specifics. I\u00a0want to\u00a0see\u00a0them\u00a0in the comments.\u00a0I read every one. Was it not agreeing where to eat out or how much you should keep in your checking account? Let me know in the comments the last time you were not on the same page with your finance.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:02:14]\u00a0Now, I’m looking at their conscious spending plan, which breaks down their key numbers, including their net worth,\u00a0income,\u00a0and where they spend their money. It’s the same tool I use in every episode.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:02:24]\u00a0Assets,\u00a0$603,315.\u00a0Investments, $770,000. Keep in mind, Michael is 65 years old,\u00a0already at retirement age.\u00a0Savings,\u00a08,523. Debt, $601,000 and over $100,000 of that debt is high interest debt.\u00a0Net worth,\u00a0$780,000.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:02:49]\u00a0All of this is raising a lot of questions. So let’s get started with Imani and Michael.<\/span><\/p>\n[Interview]<\/span><\/p>\n[00:02:55]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0Imani, you mentioned in your application that you’ve been married for 24 years, and you said something that really caught my eye.\u00a0You said,\u00a0“I want to separate our finances. In fact, I am so upset that I suggested we combine them four years ago.”\u00a0Why do you feel that way?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:03:19]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0I feel like we spoke better or related better when the finances weren’t combined. I feel like we are both all in the account all the time. Like it’ll be like,\u00a0“Why is there a $.95 charge.”\u00a0And\u00a0he’ll ask me, “Did you go to the spa?”\u00a0You know what I mean? Like\u00a0part of it is taking away the autonomy of the other person. And so it feels like I’m monitoring an adult.\u00a0That’s not fair\u00a0for me to\u00a0try to be his mother.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:03:50]\u00a0Originally, we did have separate accounts, and then we had a joint account for bills.\u00a0About four years ago,\u00a0I was like,\u00a0“We just need all the paychecks to go into one account, and that way we can monitor and get control over our finances.”\u00a0And then what I saw\u00a0was\u00a0out of control,\u00a0and so it stressed me out.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:08]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0Wow. Okay. I have lots to unpack there. Michael, what’s your reaction to what Imani just said?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:15]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0It seemed to be less\u00a0complicated\u00a0when they were separate because it was always like, well, I know certain things to be taken care of, so I can’t spend somewhere\u00a0else.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:31]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:31]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0So I had to make sure that the money was there.\u00a0When it became a joint account,\u00a0it’s like, yeah, I can go here and buy this and buy that because there’s money in the account.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:43]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0Would you say that when you combined your accounts that the spending got sloppy?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:48]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0Very, very.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:50]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0Yeah,\u00a0it did.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:04:51]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0Okay. So just to ask the obvious question, why don’t you just separate it?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:00]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0We’ve discussed that, separating it.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:04]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0And?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:05]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0But we didn’t come up with a concrete plan as, as far as when are we going to do it, how we’re going to do it.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:12]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:13]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0All\u00a0right. So it’s still on the table to separate your finances.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:17]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:17]\u00a0<\/span>Michael:<\/b>\u00a0Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:17]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0But\u00a0when you hear about marriages, it’s like it’s supposed to be a coming together,\u00a0and you’re supposed to have things together.\u00a0And I have friends who have joint accounts and everything goes well.\u00a0With us,\u00a0it is not.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:33]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0And of course, if you were to separate your finances, I suspect things would not magically fix themselves. I suspect it would open up a whole new can of worms because a lot of ways it’s a symptom, probably. We’ll figure that out a little bit more. So Imani, you mentioned that sometimes Michael will say he’s looking at the expenses. He goes, “Did you go to this spa?”<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:57]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n[00:05:58]\u00a0<\/span>Ramit:<\/b>\u00a0What is the next sentence after that?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:06:02]\u00a0<\/span>Imani:<\/b>\u00a0From him or from me?<\/span><\/p>\n[00:06:03]\u00a0<\/span>