{"id":319989,"date":"2025-04-08T01:38:28","date_gmt":"2025-04-08T06:38:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/episode-201-i-make-40k-but-i-own-100-suits"},"modified":"2025-04-08T01:39:46","modified_gmt":"2025-04-08T06:39:46","slug":"episode-201-i-make-40k-but-i-own-100-suits","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/episode-201-i-make-40k-but-i-own-100-suits","title":{"rendered":"Episode #201: \u201cI make $40k\u2026 however I personal one hundred+ fits\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><\/p>\n<div readability=\"1756.87759314\">\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"\u201cI make $40k\u2026 but I own 100+ suits\u201d\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/e2yOXTsIbUA\" class=\"lazyload\" src=\"data:image\/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAAAAACH5BAEKAAEALAAAAAABAAEAAAICTAEAOw==\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Today\u2019s episode takes us to New York City, where I sit down with\u00a0<em>not two, but three<\/em>\u00a0couples live on stage at my\u00a0<em>Money for Couples<\/em>\u00a0event.<\/p>\n<p>First, meet Antonio (23) and Devonta (23), a young couple who in their 20s are already ahead of the game\u2014earning money while finishing their degrees, having real conversations about finances, and even purchasing a home together.<\/p>\n<p>Next, we meet Pam (38) and Nic (40), who are struggling with a classic money dynamic: one partner earns significantly more and wants to \u201crescue\u201d the other from financial stress. But as they discover, money alone can\u2019t solve deeper issues of self-worth and financial confidence.<\/p>\n<p>And finally, for the first time\u00a0<em>ever<\/em>\u00a0on this show, a\u00a0<em>very<\/em>\u00a0special surprise guest joins me on stage. You don\u2019t want to miss this!<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Leesa | Go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/leesa.com\/\">https:\/\/leesa.com<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0for 20% off sitewide PLUS get an extra $50 off with promo code RAMIT, exclusive for my listeners.<\/p>\n<p>ZocDoc | Download the ZocDoc app for FREE at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/zocdoc.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/zocdoc.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0then find and book a top-rated doctor today.<\/p>\n<p>Upwork | Visit\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/upwork.com\/\">https:\/\/upwork.com<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow.<\/p>\n<p>Shopify | Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/shopify.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/shopify.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1p83QygEYYUiv7f8byrXanrcXt8j5JbUY\/view?usp=sharing\">Download the full transcript PDF<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s up, New York? Whoa.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:01]\u00a0As a student you make 40k a year? What the hell?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:04]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s hard we moved from the apartment to a house. All these bills just keep coming in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. Hold on. I got to do it. Are you telling me that when you buy a house there are certain costs you did not account for?\u00a0How many suits do you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:32]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably about 100.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What!<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:47]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m tagging along in this relationship. I\u2019m like, \u201cThat\u2019s really nice.\u201d We get to do cool things because Pam said we could.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You want me to just tell you the answer?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:03]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s not how it works.\u00a0We\u2019re living in La La Land right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:23]\u00a0On today\u2019s episode, you\u2019ll get to join me on the third stop of my live book tour in a city that is very special to me, New York City. I loved being on the road for this tour,\u00a0and experiencing Boston and Chicago was unbelievable, but there is something special about coming home and having the opportunity to get on stage in my own backyard.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:44]\u00a0Today I will speak with two couples\u00a0at\u00a0completely different ends of the socioeconomic spectrum. And that is one of my favorite things about New York. We have a huge melting pot of all different backgrounds, culturally, financially, and we get to explore it today. Now let\u2019s get to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Whoa.\u00a0What\u2019s up New York? Whoa. Love to see it. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Oh my God. All right. Welcome, everybody. It feels great to be back in New York. I lived here a long time. I met my wife here. And living here, you realize money here is different than money in other cities.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:32]\u00a0How many of us have been scrolling on social media? We\u2019re just scrolling, having a nice time. And then you see some [Bleep] who posts, \u201cHey, who wants to live in New York in a one-bedroom apartment? Ugh. If you lived in my city, you could buy a house like this.\u201d And then they show you the ugliest [Bleep] house you\u2019ve ever seen in your life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:59]\u00a0I go, \u201cWho wants to live in a field surrounded by wheat and a Wells Fargo?\u201d I hate Wells Fargo. See, what people don\u2019t understand is that New York is like a cosmic vortex of finance. You wake up, you go outside, you go to work, you come home, you kick off your shoes, and then you just realize, I just spent $375. I don\u2019t know why. It\u2019s New York.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:24]\u00a0They will never understand it, but we do. Like in another city, you walk into a breakfast place. You sit down. You have your meal. You go, \u201cYummy, I\u2019m so full.\u201d And you give them a $10 bill and you get change back. Here, I saw somebody this morning order a bagel at Apollo\u2019s Bagels. That bagel was 15 [Bleep] dollars. They won\u2019t get it, but we do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:50]\u00a0Don\u2019t even bother trying to explain it to them. It\u2019s hopeless. What they don\u2019t understand is that real wealth in New York is not just about the clothes that you\u2019re wearing. It\u2019s not about the bag that you\u2019re carrying. It\u2019s none of that. Y\u2019all want to hear the real levels of wealth in New York? Let me tell you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:09]\u00a0Level one, you have an elevator in your building. Let me hear you if this is you. Is this you? Wow, wow, wow, wow. If this is you, you have officially made it. You are not climbing up a fifth floor walk up in August in Flatbush. Well done. Well done. Well done.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:28]\u00a0Level two wealth in New York. You have a dishwasher in your apartment. Let me hear it if this is\u2013 wow, wow, wow, wow. Every night you finish putting stuff in the dishwasher, you close it, you wipe your hands, and you just stare at that dishwasher and you say a prayer. Thank you, Lord. I don\u2019t have to scrub off my skin for the next 15 minutes and then use 20 paper towels to clean off my counter because I have no space to store these dishes. Thank you. Hallelujah. That\u2019s level two.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:03]\u00a0Level three wealth in New York, laundry in your unit. Wow. Yes, yes. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have laundry in your unit, you are balling. You definitely work at a job where you make so much you can\u2019t contribute to your Roth IRA.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:22]\u00a0Now, level four wealth in New York, which they will never understand, but we do, central air conditioning. Exactly. You know what I\u2019m talking about. You know what I\u2019m talking about, central air. You just turn on a switch, it cools the whole place down. Not that rattly old box that\u2019s three months away from falling out of your window and killing someone.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:47]\u00a0If you have central air in your apartment, you are worth at least $10 million. And now for the ultimate level of wealth in New York, this is level five wealth. Can you guess what it is? No, it\u2019s not a car. It\u2019s not owning a Birkin. It\u2019s not even a summer house in the Hamptons.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:13]\u00a0If you live in New York and you have an in sync garbage disposal, you are [Bleep] rich. Like richie rich. Yes. Like use my house in Aspen because I\u2019m never there rich. That\u2019s rich. Now I\u2019m telling you, I\u2019m telling you, they will never understand, but we do. Now, I love New York because I love the levels of wealth. I love talking about money, and I\u2019ve had some of my best conversations about money in New York.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:54]\u00a0People open up and they tell you things that you can\u2019t believe they\u2019re saying, and you never know what to expect like tonight. We get to explore one of the most fascinating and under-explored relationships in our lives, and that is our relationship with money. So I want your help to welcome our guests who are coming out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:19]\u00a0Please get on your feet and give a huge welcome to Antonio and\u00a0\u200aDevonta. Hello. How you doing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:28]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How is it going?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:30]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:30]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Pretty good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How y\u2019all feeling?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:33]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0A little nervous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nervous? All right. Is this crowd here for them? They are here for you. Thank you so much for being here. Now, who applied to come up here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:46]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I did.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You did. Okay. Is that normal in your relationship when it comes to money? Are you the more assertive one with money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:51]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, pretty much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Now, I understand that you are both young and you both recently bought a house and you\u2019re getting married this year. Is that right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:02]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So you told us that you feel like you\u2019re not able to get ahead with your savings goals. Now, before we get into all that, I just want to say I talk to a lot of different folks, different incomes, different locations, different situations. One of my favorite things in the world to do is to talk to young people because the fact that you are up here, asking the right questions early on is amazing, and you have the time to set your life up the way you want to. So can we give it up for them. Young, asking these questions. Oh my God. You\u2019re 23 years old.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:44]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:44]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Amazing. How many people here wish they started optimizing their money at 23? Damn. Look at that. Look at that. That\u2019s got to feel good seeing that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:55]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it is.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re doing it right. Okay, great. So I want to know a little bit about your financial dynamic. Income wise, you both earn similar or different incomes?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:04]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Different.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:04]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Different.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Break it down for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:06]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0So I\u2019m a registered nurse, so I earn 65. So 65k a year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a065, okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:14]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>And I\u2019m a full-time college student and I work part-time and I have a residential cleaning business.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How much do you make from that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:21]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0For my cleaning business, this year I made $20,000. And for my part-time income, I make around 20,000. So 40k a year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0As a student you make 40k a year? What the hell? I feel like this is going be very easy for me. All right. 23-year-old making good money. Great. Now, this was a role reversal because y\u2019all switched incomes recently. Explain that a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:48]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0So basically, last year me and Antonio was in an apartment and he was going to school full-time in his accelerated program. And I was working part-time, but I was also doing my cleaning business.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:01]\u00a0So financially, we\u2019re in a better position. We didn\u2019t have the house, so we didn\u2019t have this much debt. I was basically covering majority of everything because the bills weren\u2019t that much. Our granny was helping us financially with the rent, so we just had to cover the utilities and then eating, everyday expenses, which wasn\u2019t that much. So I was basically the sole provider while he was going to school and he was in accelerated program working one day a week.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. And you flipped them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:28]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:28]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So how do you feel about that, Antonio?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:31]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0So I\u2019m not used to, per se, being the breadwinner or provider role, so it\u2019s hard because we moved from the apartment to a house. And then it\u2019s like all these bills just keep coming in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm? What do you mean? Hold on, hold on. I got to do it. Are you telling me that when you buy a house, there are certain costs you did not account for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:53]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0We did, but\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:56]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I didn\u2019t think it was going to get like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:00]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you so much. Thank you. I feel so good right now. All right. There\u2019s a lot of phantom costs in owning. That\u2019s for sure. Okay. And you mentioned something. You said, \u201cI\u2019m not used to being the provider.\u201d That\u2019s interesting. How would you characterize each of your financial roles in the relationship?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:19]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0So he usually, like in the past, would handle more of the bills and stuff. I know they\u2019re coming, but I wouldn\u2019t see them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:30]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0True.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You knew they were coming spiritually?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:33]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I know first of the month the rent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:37]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I knew how much the rent cost, but I just knew it was handled. Or I don\u2019t know, the water bill or something like that was coming.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What about for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:48]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0For me I more so handled saving our money or just planning it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What do you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:57]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Basically what he was saying. I would take care of all the bills. I\u2019m a splurger, so I would buy us things, take us out to eat and stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you splurge on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:07]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Suits. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:08]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:10]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What? How many suits do you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:13]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0I travel a lot and I do a lot of events because I\u2019m a business major. So usually, when it\u2019s an event or anything like that, I\u2019ll always buy a brand-new suit to go to the events.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Notice how he did not answer my question. How many suits?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:28]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably about 100.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What? Are you serious? You have 100 suits?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:35]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh my god. What? I did not know that. What am I supposed to do with this information? How do you have enough closet space for that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:46]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, there\u2019s closet space, or I make closet space, and then I have a wardrobe full of the suits. And then the ones I can\u2019t fit anymore, I just give away.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you think that it\u2019s normal to have 100 suits? Be legit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:56]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. What do you think would be an average amount of suits for a man?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:02]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably 20.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yo.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:07]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s a good number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We are living in la la land now. All right. Okay. I was going to ask if you all were aligned on savings goals, but I feel like the answer is no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:21]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re aligned with the mission of like, we both want financial freedom. And our definition of that per se, we just want to not have to worry about money and have the luxury of traveling because that\u2019s our passion. So we are aligned in essence.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. So financial freedom for you is not worrying about money and traveling.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:43]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Do you think you\u2019ll be able to achieve that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:47]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Down the line, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:48]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0I think definitely we\u2019ll be able to achieve it. Buying this house was our first financial investment to financial freedom because I believe real estate is the way to start financial freedom. So that was the decision for buying the house. We want to retire before 50. So that\u2019s our goal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Got it. That\u2019s helpful. I like that, specificity. Okay, great. So Antonio, you\u2019re more frugal with saving?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:14]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How many suits do you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:16]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I have probably like five.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Five. All right. So what do you say when he comes home with another suit?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:25]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Every event or conference he\u2019ll go out like, \u201cOh, I got to get a new suit.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, you got suits in the closet.\u201d And so I just tell him to restyle it, but he doesn\u2019t want to restyle it. He wants a new one. So every time it\u2019s not needed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you buy a new suit for this trip?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:44]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. That\u2019s interesting. So right now it\u2019s funny. What happens if you keep that pattern up for the next 10 years where you know you\u2019re buying a suit and then you\u2019re like, \u201cAh, do you really need a suit? Why are you buying a suit?\u201d What happens as the numbers get bigger and the stakes get higher?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:06]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like there does be some tension when it comes to his splurging in a sense because sometimes I feel like it\u2019s unnecessary and I feel like if it keeps going on, it\u2019s like we\u2019re going further and further from our goals.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll get back to Antonio and Devonta\u00a0after a quick break to support our sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:28]\u00a0Now back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you had $10,000 extra, what would you do with it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:34]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0I wouldn\u2019t buy no more suits. I think I have enough suits. I would probably say buy another house or invest into another real estate property or something like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So if that\u2019s the case, then if you have 500 bucks, sounds like you\u2019d go and buy another suit. So what\u2019s the difference?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:50]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0So the difference is I guess because I have way more money, I feel like if I look at that number, then I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, I have to do something big. I have to invest this money and not utilize that $500 to buy another suit. So I think because I see the 3, $400 extra that I have, I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, I can just take this and buy another suit or something like that. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s like whatever I see, it gets spent. If there was a big chunk I might invest it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:17]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, definitely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Antonio, when you think about the 100 suits, etc., how does it make you feel?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:27]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I would get annoyed for that reason. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0For me, 15 suits is annoying.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:34]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a040 is a different word and 100 is a different word. What do you think? That\u2019s me. You tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:44]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I feel like it gets excessive in a sense because it doesn\u2019t need to be splurged like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s why I\u2019m trying to understand this idea, because you described yourself sometimes as a splurger, \u200aDevonta. And then you tell me of 100 suits. That\u2019s what you splurge on. Sometimes I ask people, what would you spend more money on, and if they like to eat out, they will go, \u201cOh, I would eat out four times a week.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:06]\u00a0I think in your case it\u2019s, I like suits. I would buy 100 suits. And sometimes I ask them, what if you ate at a nicer restaurant? What if you got a custom meal, a custom soup made? Have you ever thought about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:21]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I haven\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:22]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:25]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0So no, I haven\u2019t really thought about like that. I don\u2019t know. For each event that I want to attend, I just want to look nice and want to stand out. So that\u2019s why I buy another suit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is the idea that deep down is the belief more is better?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:43]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say kind of because growing up, both of my parents were on social security. They had five kids, so there was no money for us or anything like that. And then I didn\u2019t have the money to go get new clothes like I want to or just dressed nice and look nice.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:01]\u00a0So I think as I got older and I got access to this money and I\u2019m going to these different events and I\u2019m seeing these industry leaders looking nice, I want to resemble that or embody that. So that\u2019s why I go out and make sure I look nice. And first impressions is key for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I get all that. I don\u2019t get the 100. What I\u2019m trying to get at is I don\u2019t mind nice things. I like them too. But when I hear that the two of you have a vision of retiring before 50 and I hear 10, 20, 50, 100 suits, I start to go, right now you\u2019re earning what you\u2019re earning as a student. Soon you\u2019re going to earn a lot more. That\u2019s a lot more money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:41]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I suspect you\u2019d probably be tempted to get a lot more suits. I would. If I bought a hundred suits, I\u2019d want\u2013 it\u2019s like eating tortilla chips. I eat 10 chips, I want 20 more. Right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:52]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what I\u2019m trying to really get at here is what\u2019s the vision individually and together? I hear the together vision, which is retire before 50, financial freedom. I love it. I don\u2019t hear how the individual vision contributes to that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:09]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0I believe once I get older, or once I make more money, I won\u2019t buy any more suits. I think that\u2019s just a now thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. How many people in this room\u2013 cheer if you believe that. Dude, nobody buys less of things they love when they make more money. They buy more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:32]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Trust me, I\u2019m not the guy who tells you don\u2019t spend money on suits or lattes. That\u2019s not me. What I\u2019m trying to get at is what\u2019s the vision? If I want to look great, one way to do it is to have dozens of suits. Another way is to have a certain number of suits and to restyle them, and maybe the suit quality goes or maybe it\u2019s the same, but I have 20 different shirts. And I want you to really think about it because the decisions you make today carry through for the next 20, 30 years. How do y\u2019all set your accounts up?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:06]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0So we have a joint checking account where all of our bills come out of the fixed cost. We have a high yield savings account together. And then we have personal high yield savings accounts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. Okay. Great. Amazing. And are you planning a wedding right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:22]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0So I don\u2019t want a wedding because of the cost. We decided to just elope and do something private with both of us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Cool. I love that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:31]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. You know what I love? For me, big wedding, small wedding, it\u2019s all good. What I love is that the two of you talked about it. And you decided this is for us. So that\u2019s beautiful.\u00a0Let\u2019s take a quick look at the numbers here.\u00a0All right.\u00a0So what we see here is assets of 157k.\u00a0Investments, 5,000.\u00a0Debt\u00a0is 185.\u00a0Total net worth of about 20k.\u00a0Gross annual income of\u00a0100k approximately.\u00a0Fixed cost is 61%.\u00a0And\u00a0investments at\u00a09. How do y\u2019all feel about these numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:08]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel okay a little bit. I\u2019m proud of where I came from from where I started. I just more so feel like the debt component, gives me anxiety.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:19]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I feel the same way. I feel like our numbers are pretty good, but I feel like they could be better. And I just want us to work on paying down the debt. I don\u2019t like to see that high of the number for debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I think your CSP\u2019s pretty good, honestly. For 23 years old, I think it\u2019s really good. And you got a student.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:43]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re not even earning your full-time income, correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:45]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So this is solid. And it\u2019s really important when we talk about money, it\u2019s like a window into our soul. It tells you how people feel. So did you notice how the two of you answered a question? It was very similar. I said, how do you feel about those numbers? What was your answer?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:03]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Good, but anxious about the debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:06]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Good. But don\u2019t like to see the high of a number with debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Exactly. You guys were like, it\u2019s good. But anyway, I feel really horrible about debt. We got to fix this and that. You glided over the good so quickly. And I wonder what would it look and feel like if you actually spent more time on the good?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:23]\u00a0I once had a performance review for one of my teammates coming up, and I have this group of CEOs I\u2019m in a group with, and they were like, \u201cAre you ready for the performance review?\u201d And I always find them challenging. And they said, \u201cHow good is this employee?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:38]\u00a0I said, \u201cOh, he\u2019s really good.\u201d They said, \u201cOn a percentage, 1 to 100, how good is he? I said, \u201cHe\u2019s 90% great.\u201d They said, \u201cIn your performance review, which is going to be an hour, how much time are you planning to be positive versus constructive?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:54]\u00a0And it just immediately hit me because I was going to say a couple of nice things and then spend the rest of the time focusing on all the things that he could do better. And they taught me to flip it. If something\u2019s good, spend a lot of time on the good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:09]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, we can fix the stuff that needs to be fixed, like the debt, but sometimes it really helps to really lean into that feeling of good. You guys think you can do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:19]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Definitely focus more on that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. All right. Celebrate. At 23, you got these numbers. Quick calculations, very simple calculations, on one income, if you just continue, you\u2019ll have 1.6 million at retirement.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:34]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm. That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s good?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:36]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you have two incomes, that\u2019s $3.1 million.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:42]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:42]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And y\u2019all, we didn\u2019t add in any increases in incomes, none of it. So you know that if you were like, we want to have 4 million or 5 million, you could do that because you\u2019re 23 years old and tiny little changes now echo 25 years down the road, 30 years. So now I\u2019m going to ask you again. How do you feel about those numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:12]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re in a great position.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Look at that smile. That\u2019s what I\u2019m talking about. Feeling good, really leaning into that. Celebrating with each other. We did it. Look how far we came. Look how we grew up. Look where we are now, and look where we get to go together. That, to me, is really powerful. How do you think that that will change the dynamic of your money conversations going forward?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:41]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like we have money conversations almost weekly, but\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, what are you talking about weekly?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:47]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll just reflect over where we\u2019re at financial wise, what we have to pay, and things like that. Right now it\u2019s a lot of worry conversation. Worried about paying this off.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s so surprising.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:01]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, because I\u2019m a perfectionist, so I get tense about paying off certain things that we have, so I go overboard.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, wow. So out of a 30-minute conversation\u2013 it\u2019s not 30, is it? How long is the conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:16]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Sometimes 30, but if we get really deep into it, maybe an hour..<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Out of an hour, how much of it is positive versus negative?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:24]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Percentage wise, we\u2019re probably 75% negative than 25% positive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s honest. Most money conversations are 90-plus percent negative. Because really the only time people talk about money is when they\u2019re fighting. And then they go, \u201cLet\u2019s go to sleep and pretend this didn\u2019t happen, and let\u2019s wait for another six weeks until it comes up again.\u201d So the fact that you\u2019re actually proactive about it is amazing. I think a week is aggressive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:51]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Like, gosh, what do we need to talk about every week if we\u2019ve set things up to flow smoothly, if each person owns a couple of numbers? You may not need to do it, but I\u2019ll leave that to you. Typically, I say every month. Some people do it every week, or biweekly. That\u2019s up to you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:15]\u00a0Some of the stuff in the book is how to have these money conversations be positive. We always start with a compliment. We always give each other a hug, a high five at the end. Really recharacterize them. One thing that I would really remind myself of if I were in your situation is we\u2019re on a single income for right now, but that\u2019s a temporary situation. When do you start a full-time job?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:38]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0So potentially the fall of 2026.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Do you know how much you\u2019ll make when you start that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:46]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So starting salary is about 75 to 85k.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Damn. All right. So that\u2019s a lot. That\u2019s going to be great. So have you all talked about where the money\u2019s going to flow when you make that much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:01]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I believe we talked about it. Yeah. Did we?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:04]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Right now staying on the same plan of like\u2013 we want to switch to living off of one income and then using the other income to just save or invest, like how we want to. So I feel like that\u2019s where we want to stick to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Where\u2019s the suit money going to come from? No kidding. Really. Where is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:25]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s going to probably come from my portion, probably going to be paying all the bills and we\u2019re going to be living off my income. So make sure I have a little bit for probably my suits.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Like how much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:36]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0A year, I want say 5,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a05,000 a year of 100k?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:41]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. It\u2019s not my money. It\u2019s not my position to say, I think that if the two of you set your accounts up right, which my suggestion would be shared joint account and then you have some joint guilt-free money, things like eating out, trips, all that stuff that\u2019s important to you. And then you each have some individual guilt-free money. Then that guilt-free money that\u2019s individual is no questions asked. If you want to buy another suit, it\u2019s your money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:12]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No questions. But it\u2019s got to come from there. It can\u2019t come from the joint money because that suit doesn\u2019t make sense for the joint. So that\u2019s why I really love setting this money up so that each of us has individual no-questions-asked money. And within that, it\u2019s yours to play with. Your partner knows about your account. They don\u2019t even have access to the account though. It\u2019s yours and you have your own as well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:34]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Each of you do what you want. If you set that up and you two come up with a vision as teammates, this is how much we\u2019re going to have. Our incomes are about to go up significantly because we\u2019re going to combine them. We\u2019re going to have another income. And we have this vision of maybe buying another property, retiring at 50, traveling. I think it\u2019d be very, very successful. All right. Let\u2019s give it up for Antonio and Devonta. Thank you very much. Well done. Great to see you guys. Thank you very much.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u00a0have to say, it\u2019s rare that I get a chance to speak with such a young couple, and I have to applaud them for thinking about their finances at 23 years old.\u00a0And hearing our story is a great reminder that how we talk about money influences the way we feel about money.\u00a0And in order to feel better about money, we could probably benefit from spending a little bit of time celebrating how far we\u2019ve come, as opposed to just dwelling on what we don\u2019t yet have.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:39]\u00a0Wait until you hear their follow-ups at the end of this episode. I am blown away by the progress they\u2019ve made in a really short time. I think you will be too. We\u2019ll get back to the show after a quick break to support our sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:53]\u00a0Now let\u2019s get back to the show and meet our second couple,\u00a0Pam and\u00a0Nic.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Please get on your feet and welcome Pam and\u00a0Nic. Welcome. Hello. How are you doing? Welcome. Hi. All right. Hello. How you doing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:15]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How you feeling?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:16]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Nervous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:17]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Nervous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Can we give it up? We have the best community in the world. We\u2019re all here for you.\u00a0By the way,\u00a0I asked you to send a photo. You sent these great photos,\u00a0and my team selected one of the photos you sent. Can we take a look here?\u00a0I do love the photo.\u00a0I don\u2019t think I need any comments here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:46]\u00a0Okay. Now, Pam, I want to just jump right into what you wrote in your application for today. You said, \u201cBiggest challenge, trying to figure out whether my partner, Nic, can stop working given my high income. We both come from low-income backgrounds and a lot of financial insecurity during our childhood. We both used to be avoiders and we\u2019re now trying to be in charge of our money.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:15]\u00a0First of all, I got to say I really admire the fact that the two of you were avoiders, grew up in a low-income environment, and you are here right now, in New York, talking about this in front of tons of people. To me, that\u2019s very inspiring. Thank you. What did you feel about money when you were growing up?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:40]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Never enough. There were times where we didn\u2019t have a home to live in. And so it was something that we just didn\u2019t have. And\u00a0thus was like the crux of\u00a0insecurity, lack of safety.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How did money work in your family? Did you have a dwindling bank account or a stack of cash in the house? What was it like?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:07]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t even know if my mom had a bank account. My mom was on welfare for most of my growing up. I remember very clearly a wad of cash that she would keep in her dresser drawer in her bedroom. And I would just see through the month that roll getting smaller. And when it was out, we were like, \u201cOkay, now we just have to make it through until the next check comes in the mail.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. What about for you? How did you feel about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:37]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0There was always a culture of working as hard as possible, like grinding to earn enough. I immigrated with my family when I was 10 years old, so there was also the switch to moving to the US and leaving everything behind and starting from zero and learning a new language. So it was just a lot of having to figure out how to earn money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. I don\u2019t think that many people can understand what it\u2019s like to move to a different country or to see a stack of cash getting smaller and smaller and you know that that is it. I think we all have some feeling where, oh my God, is there going to be enough?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:23]\u00a0And you\u2019re here today. You\u2019re here today because your financial situation has changed considerably. But there\u2019s some other issues. Some other psychological and communication challenges, I think,\u00a0still remain.\u00a0Pam, how did you get into your current industry tech?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:44]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I got my master\u2019s degree in Italian, and then when I graduated with that, I basically applied to 200 jobs anywhere in the country that needed that skillset. And then I got hired by a tech startup that was working on teaching foreign languages.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. A big one that probably people in this room have heard of.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:07]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it\u2019s called Duolingo.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. Okay. And then what were you doing there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:16]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0So I was working as a language expert, helping to create course content. So all the weird sentences. And then while I was there, I was working with a lot of bright software engineers, a lot of bright product designers, and I learned technical skills through that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And take me forward to today. Where are you now? What do you do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:42]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0So now I work in software engineering. I do large scale program management.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you said, \u201cI had no business in tech, but I kept learning and getting promoted.\u201d Pretty amazing, pretty amazing. Can we just take a look at the numbers? Okay. Pop them up. Let\u2019s take a look.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:06]\u00a0Gross monthly income, if I just net it out for you, is? $633,000 a year. That\u2019s what I love. That\u2019s what I love. Sometimes I have couples. They have all different incomes that come on stage. Sometimes they\u2019re in huge debt. Sometimes they have huge incomes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:25]\u00a0And it\u2019s a little touchy to talk about a huge income, but on the occasions where I\u2019ve brought couples up here who have a very high income, the crowd always cheers. And I really love you for that because we can support people who are in debt, we can support people who have huge incomes. The whole point of my work is that the way you feel about money is highly uncorrelated to how much you have in the bank. And so I really appreciate you sharing that.\u00a0You have $0 in assets, so that means you rent. Great.\u00a0Your\u00a0investments are $865,000. Fantastic. Savings,\u00a0$69,000.\u00a0Debt, 228.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:10]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s\u00a0all my student loans.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah, okay. We\u2019ll get to that. And the rest of this, fixed costs are 38%. Yeah,\u00a0that\u2019s what happens when you have a super high income. How do you feel about the numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:22]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Amazing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. Wow. Thank God I don\u2019t have to talk to another high earning couple that goes, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t know. 630 isn\u2019t enough.\u201d Great. I love that answer. I feel amazing. Great. How about you? How do you feel about the numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:40]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like I\u2019m really fortunate. My contribution is significantly less in terms of the totals, and I also come along with that debt component. I feel fortunate to be where we are together. Maybe a little bit of guilt in my portion.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. Okay. So to clarify, you\u2019re not married. Are your finances combined or not?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:10]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0We just moved in together in August, and our goal is to merge finances and figure out what that looks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And Nic, what is your income?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:20]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0My income?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:21]\u00a0<strong>Audience:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:21]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0153.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s pretty good. It sounds like you say it like you\u2019re a little bit embarrassed. That\u2019s a very good income.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:33]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. I worked really hard to get there, and then I made it and I met everyone that, by comparison, I was like, \u201cOh, wait. I guess maybe I didn\u2019t do as well as I thought I was doing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm. So when we talk about comparing ourselves to the Joneses, it\u2019s literally this, except it\u2019s income and not material things. Okay. We all think your income is great, and combined\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:01]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0I do too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. And combined it\u2019s outstanding. All right. Let\u2019s talk about that. Nic, you have debt. What\u2019s debt from?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:11]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s all school.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How do you feel about it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:16]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I wish I could have a conversation now with the person who decided to sign those loans.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What would you have said?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:24]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0You can get this degree at a less expensive school.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah. What was the degree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:29]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m a nurse practitioner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So you got 228 or so thousand dollars of debt. Do you feel proud of the schooling that you went through?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:42]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I worked really tremendously hard, so I am proud of that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Cool. Do you feel ashamed of having the debt?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:52]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, 100%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How do you reconcile those two?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:56]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess the idea that I could have done it differently.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Looking back, if I had changed this, I would be in a different place.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:07]\u00a0<strong>Audience:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That feeling of shame or regret, how does that affect your relationship?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:15]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s the mean voice in the back of my head that I am bringing a burden into the relationship. And I told Pam early on that part of the reason that I would never marry somebody is because I\u2019m not going to saddle them with poor decisions that I made.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Again, this was a decision to get professional degree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:42]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Which makes you a good income.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:45]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. If you had no debt, would you all be talking about marriage in a different way?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:54]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not the only reason. We have our own thoughts around marriage as an institution. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. So right now you don\u2019t plan to get married. Totally fine. And you\u2019re committed. You\u2019re living together. You\u2019re trying to figure out how to combine your finances, but you have this looming thing over your head with the quarter million dollars or so of debt. Okay. What\u2019s the solution that you\u2019ve come up with?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:23]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0So when I look at the debt, we basically broke it out into most of that is a public loan that qualifies for the public service loan forgiveness. So we decided to put that aside and think about the private part of that loan, which is around 56,000. And Nic upped her contribution to try to get out of that debt faster. And I offered that I would like to contribute to that. So she\u2019s contributing 1,700 and I\u2019m starting to contribute 2,000 extra on top of hers. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I want everyone to think about what you would do if you\u2019re in this situation. It\u2019s quite interesting. Lots of layers. How would you approach it? We ran some simple calculations because there\u2019s so many things. There\u2019s forbearance. There\u2019s different policy changes that may happen. There\u2019s a lot of complexity.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:25]\u00a0But when you have a big decision where there\u2019s 50 different things, it\u2019s often easy to get paralyzed. Important thing is put all the minor things aside and focus on the two or three big things that matter. So in your case, Nic, you could pay it off at 1,500 bucks a month. It\u2019ll take you about 13 and a half years. Did you know that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:45]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I ran some numbers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, you did?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:48]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s awesome. Wow. Okay, great. Pam, you could match Nic\u2019s payment. That would take it down to 6.5 years. How do y\u2019all feel about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:00]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel good. I want to get rid of it for her sake, but also us as a team so that it\u2019s not something that we have to think about.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What about you, Nic?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:16]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s really nice and generous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Keep going. Is there a but?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:29]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s not a but. It\u2019s a little bit uncomfortable, accepting help essentially.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:38]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I\u2019ve essentially been on my own since I was 18 and worked really hard and pretty much just told myself I only have myself to count on. And I found myself in a really amazing situation that I have somebody I am entirely in love with and want to spend my life with and is incredible and able to help me. And I\u2019m working on feeling enthusiastic about that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s pretty interesting. It\u2019s a perfect example of the way we feel about money is not correlated. Because if we just look at the numbers here, you could basically write a check or certainly pay it off very, very quickly. There are so many layers of this that are subtle and not obvious. For example, the fact that, when you get married, it\u2019s a contract with each other and with the state. So you know what happens if you separate. Now, some people choose to do it, some people don\u2019t. It\u2019s totally fine. You just have to understand the ramifications of what that means.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:49]\u00a0But the other layers I find even more interesting, which are we have a higher earner and a lower earner. And often there are these dynamics that come along with it. Have you noticed the dynamics that happen when one person earns a lot more than the other?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:07]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think so.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No? How do y\u2019all split the money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:13]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0So I actually followed this from watching some of your content. I proposed to Nic early on in our relationship that we should do proportional things because when we added up our income, I think I brought in like 75% and she brought in 25%. And so I said, \u201cThat\u2019s how we should treat our expenses.\u201d I\u2019ll cover 75% of the things and then she covers the rest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s good, especially when you\u2019re in exactly the situation. Makes sense. But I\u2019m going back to your question, Pam, which was, can my partner, Nic, stop working given my high income? Isn\u2019t that the question?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:54]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So how are you all navigating that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:58]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You want me to just tell you the answer?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:03]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, please.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s not how it works. That\u2019s not why people come to see me. What do you think? What are the ingredients in the decision? Because technically, I guess she could quit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:15]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s how I was looking at it. When I looked at our numbers together, I was like\u2013 and it doesn\u2019t have to be right away or necessarily even quite 100%, but could she reduce her workload. She works in an industry that\u2019s very draining.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Maybe we should ask her. What do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:35]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0So I originally proposed we do this because it\u2019s something that she had remarked on offhandedly a few times, that because I\u2019m incredibly mentally and emotionally drained, after work each day and I end up feeling like I don\u2019t have a lot left of myself outside of work, and hearing me talk about this, she offered up, well, maybe you don\u2019t have to work as much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How long after you bringing up your stressful worplace until you, Pam, suggested maybe you don\u2019t need to work there? Was it a week or a year?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:16]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Pretty immediate.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Big clue. Okay. So you\u2019re like, \u201cHey, maybe you shouldn\u2019t work or you should cut back down. We have the income.\u201d Etc.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:27]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And I framed it more as like it\u2019s something we should consider. As we\u2019re thinking about our future together, it\u2019s an option.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How decisive are the two of you with money? Okay, I think that answers my question. Is there a lot of collaboration? Let\u2019s talk about it versus I think this is what we should do. I think that\u2019s what we should do. And we hash it out. Which one is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:54]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think there\u2019s a lot of planning.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. The reason I am asking these questions is that I see this pattern a lot among couples, and I\u2019ve observed it more with a male higher earner who\u2019s in a heterosexual relationship and he tells his partner who earns less, sometimes way less, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t you quit that? You don\u2019t need to do it. We have enough. And it\u2019s great and I want to take care of you and I don\u2019t want you to be stressed and you can find something else.\u201d What do you think happens a year, two years, five years, 10 years later?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:33]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Something bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s good. That\u2019s a good read of a leading question. What do you think, Nic? What happens?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:45]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0My natural fear is that there would be some sort of resentment.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that could be it. Often it\u2019s very disempowering. It\u2019s very disempowering for the lower earner, and it actually is done in good faith. Hey, we have the money, if you\u2019re stressed every day, cool it off for a while. Chill. Find something else, etc. But it can be quite disempowering. So in a way, I see the same pattern. Nic, I see you nodding your head. What\u2019s going on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:10]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, we could.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Do you see right now it\u2019s like, it\u2019s a bit funny, but a year or two into it, it\u2019s not funny.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:19]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s actually quite disempowering. So my suggestion, if I can just be a little bit directive, is first I would really rethink the way that you talk about your debt. Because you used the word ashamed. I don\u2019t find it shameful that you took on a lot of debt to get a great job. I think you made a calculated decision.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:39]\u00a0Maybe you spent more than you could have, but you\u2019re a nurse practitioner. You have a great job. I think you should be very proud of that. And then next, I would really encourage you to put more skin in the game for your finances. So just because Pam, you earn more, actually think that you should be asking Nic, Nic, what do you think? What\u2019s your plan? And Nic, you\u2019ve got to take the lead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:10]\u00a0If you want to make a proposal where you say, \u201cLook, I\u2019d like to pay this debt off. I\u2019m going to pay this much. It would be really nice, although you don\u2019t have to, if you could contribute X dollars, or I\u2019m going to take a vacation or speak to my boss or find a different way of a lifestyle adjustment.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:30]\u00a0But it\u2019s got to be you leading it because it\u2019s your debt. And trust me, when you do that, the fact that you already ran your numbers is very impressive. Most don\u2019t. If you do that, you\u2019re going to feel more empowered. You\u2019re actually going to be substantively more a part of the financial conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:44]\u00a0And the two of you should always remember, just because one person makes more does not make them more valuable. So many different ways to contribute to a relationship, but you\u2019ve both got to be active in it. How does that sound?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:58]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Great.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So the new theme is teammates. If I can gently suggest, the new theme is decisive with money. You can run the numbers, make a decision. You can always reevaluate it 12 months later, always. If the two of you can do that, I think you\u2019ll be very, very successful. All right. Can we give it, Pam and Nic?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:20]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you very much.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I really love this conversation with Pam and\u00a0Nic. A lot of times money can be a tool that helps us solve problems, but actually that\u2019s not the case here. Yes, Pam can write a check and solve one of\u00a0Nic\u2019s debt problems. That\u2019s the financial part. But\u00a0it actually wouldn\u2019t do anything to solve the psychological part.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:38]\u00a0It wouldn\u2019t help\u00a0Nic\u00a0feel any less shame, and in fact, it could be damaging to their relationship because\u00a0Nic\u00a0attaches a lot of self-worth to what she can contribute financially. This is very common dynamic. The higher earner often sees a problem that can theoretically be solved with money, and they think, okay, cool.\u00a0I\u2019ll write a check, make this thing disappear.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:01]\u00a0But that\u2019s not actually addressing the root cause, which is that\u00a0Nic\u00a0does not feel she\u2019s contributing as much because of her earnings compared to her partner.\u00a0That\u2019s where the work is for\u00a0Nic. If Pam simply waves a magic wand and takes away that debt or tells her you can quit your job, it won\u2019t erase that feeling of being less than for\u00a0Nic, even though Pam is trying to help.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:23]\u00a0This is why I love my job. I get to look at the whole picture, the money, the person, the dynamic of the couple.\u00a0To me, the truth is\u00a0Nic\u00a0should be proud,\u00a0and I think she can get there, but she has to do it with her partner, not because of her partner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:41]\u00a0Let\u2019s get back to the show. You\u2019re about to see something I have never done before.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now I have one final surprise for you this evening. We have a third couple who volunteered at the very last minute. Here\u2019s their profile. The husband is a typical optimizer and the wife is\u2013 well, let\u2019s just find out. For the first time ever on stage, introducing my wife, Cassandra Sethi. Love you. Whoa. How come you get more applause than I do? Wow. Welcome.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:33]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you. Hey, everyone. Hey. What\u2019s up, Brooklyn?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How does it feel to be out here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:39]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s so cool. It\u2019s so cool to see everyone. I\u2019m usually in the audience, so it\u2019s cool to be up here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you for being here.\u00a0Okay. I have some questions. You\u2019ve never been on stage before.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:50]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And you are highly requested by my entire community. So first question is, what is it like being married to an optimizer?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:04]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Good question. I would say now I enjoy it. It took us a while to get here though, because we have different money dials and money languages. And now I have to say I appreciate Ramit\u2019s love of a good spreadsheet, of running a compound interest calculator for fun.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:26]\u00a0So these are things I love about him. I will say one thing though, that I thought all optimizers were good at Excel. So I was a little surprised to learn that Ramit did not know some basic formulas, but it\u2019s okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You now run the spreadsheets in our family.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:46]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, I do. I love a good formula.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s so good. Okay. Wow. I think next up, how did it feel when we started combining our finances?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:59]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. For me it was very nerve wracking, and we had a lot of very difficult conversations as well. And now I realize it\u2019s because we come from different backgrounds with money, different cultures. We saw our life differently with money in it. And so we had a lot of conversations, easy and hard ones. We talked about the F word, feelings, a lot, which I love.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait. Tell them what you asked me two days ago when the book came out as a bestseller?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:32]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So it was announced that his second book is a New York Times bestseller, which is awesome. And so I\u2019m like, \u201cBabe, how do you feel about this?\u201d And he\u2019s like, \u201cI feel good.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYou can\u2019t use a G word.\u201d So in our household, you can\u2019t use good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. She said, \u201cYou\u2019re not allowed to use good.\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh-oh.\u201d And then I wished that we had the wheel of emotions. We got this\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:56]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, we love this. It\u2019s on our refrigerator.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Literally, we got this from our therapist and I was like, \u201cOh my God, there\u2019s more than two feelings?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:07]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. All the guys in here, take a screen\u2013 look, people are taking pictures.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You freaking nerds. No, it\u2019s good. It\u2019s actually really helpful. And had I had that, I would\u2019ve looked at the happy one. I would\u2019ve said, \u201cI feel joyful.\u201d Like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:26]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Or no, you would\u2019ve said, \u201cI feel happy.\u201d That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a true work in progress. Okay, final question. What do you wish you knew back then, early on in our relationship, that you know now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:44]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I would say the power of doing individual work on money mindset really set us up to have a strong foundation together. So I did a lot of work with reading books. I hired a money mindset coach and also coincided when I started my business, so that was awesome. So we did a lot of work individually, and that has really paid off for us in the long-term.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s is very true. Give it up. Yeah. You did an amazing amount of work about money psychology and how you felt about it. And it showed. It really showed. And then I think you were very clear, you expected me to do a similar amount of work for feelings and being able to connect on the emotional level, which it\u2019s been amazing. It\u2019s been transformative.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:34]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And now our conversations are fun with money. We can dream together and plan out what we want to do. So it\u2019s been awesome.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s give it up for Cassandra Sethi. Wow. Wow. Too good. That was amazing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:49]\u00a0<strong>Cassandra:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, love you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s give it up, Cassandra.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Was anyone as nervous as me seeing my wife come out on stage? I have to tell you, I was terrified. I\u2019m not kidding. I\u2019m used to getting out on stage in front of lots of people and the lights, and it\u2019s freezing on stage,\u00a0and the noises. But asking Cassandra to come out made me incredibly nervous. I was nervous for her.\u00a0And then she comes out on stage and crushes it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:20]\u00a0I could not believe it. I knew she would be good,\u00a0even though I was nervous, but I didn\u2019t realize she would be that amazing on stage. And the funniest part is she has no interest in being on stage at all. She came out because I asked her to. And that is why I love doing what I do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:36]\u00a0Not only do I get to talk to couples about some of the most intimate things in their relationships, I\u2019m having those same conversations with my wife. We\u2019re both talking about how we grew up and what we\u00a0want to\u00a0do with money, and I don\u2019t know if we should be spending this much on that thing. And then she comes out on stage and she gets to share her experience.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:53]\u00a0So I\u00a0want to\u00a0give a huge thank you to my wife, Cassandra, and if you enjoyed seeing her, please leave a thank you in the comments. Remember, a lot of this podcast is because of her.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. Let me close with a story that I have never told anyone. I just, a few months ago, went to my 20th college reunion and I was asked by one of my friends at my table, she said, \u201cWhat has become clear to you since we last met?\u201d That\u2019s a question I never heard before.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:30]\u00a0Hearing Cassandra out here, it connects for me personally because you can see how far each of us has had to come in order to have a really happy, healthy relationship. And I was sitting out there on the quad at my reunion, the quad that I used to ride my bike to get to class every day for five years, and I flashback to 18-year-old Ramit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:56]\u00a018-year-old Ramit, who thought that success was about getting good grades and getting a good job. And he truly believed if you get the right pedigree, then you will be happy. That\u2019s not what I told my friend. That\u2019s not the answer I gave her. I really thought about it and I said, \u201cThe most valuable thing that I have done in the last 20 years was to connect to my softer side, to connect with my feelings.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:28]\u00a0And that meant becoming a better listener, becoming more compassionate with others, more compassionate with myself. And if you have followed along on my work for many years, you will see that. That actually shows you how big of a difference it can make when you truly turn the page on your identity.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:50]\u00a0The old you won\u2019t even recognize who the new you has become. And I couldn\u2019t have done that transformation alone. I had friends, family, and especially my amazing wife who encouraged me to connect on a much deeper level. And that\u2019s one of the reasons that I talk about this stuff so much with money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:11]\u00a0It\u2019s not just about fiddling around with a spreadsheet; it\u2019s really about the total transformation of the way you look at money and feel about money. And I get to do that together with her because she has given me a new lens to view the world through. It\u2019s bigger, richer, more fun.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:32]\u00a0And I will always remember that very special day with her. We were checking out of a hotel. I had gone to the parking lot to get the car, and I drove the car around to pick her up and the valet saw me. And he took one look at me and he took one look at my car, Honda Accord, four-door, LX V6.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:54]\u00a0He looks back at me and he says, \u201cUber drivers pull over there.\u201d And I realized no matter how much money you have, the best and most priceless thing is to keep that sense of humor. I just hope Cass gives me a five-star review in life. I appreciate you coming here. My best wish is that you share what you have learned with everyone you love.\u00a0Thank you,\u00a0New York. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0For me, the most important thing I want you to take away from this podcast is that your\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0is yours. It\u2019s not mine. It\u2019s not anybody else\u2019s. It\u2019s for you. If you want a beautiful car or a beautiful coat and you can afford it, fantastic. If you\u00a0want to\u00a0travel, if you\u00a0want to\u00a0pick your kids up from school every afternoon, amazing.\u00a0You decide what your\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0is.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:56]\u00a0Now,\u00a0I hope you can tell I love doing these shows. I love them, being able to speak to couples in front of an audience, seeing the audience\u2019s reaction, and going to different cities and hearing from you.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:08]\u00a0I\u00a0want to\u00a0remind everyone how brave it is for these couples to come out on stage and talk about such an intimate topic. Antonio and Devonta, Pam and\u00a0Nic, thank you for sharing your stories,\u00a0and thank you to everyone for watching and listening to this podcast. Now let\u2019s check out their follow-ups.\u00a0First is Antonio and Devonta.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:28]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0So after\u00a0our\u00a0sit down with you, we decided to take a look at our finances and also just to make some decisions and make some changes. So currently,\u00a0I no longer have\u00a0100\u00a0suits. I\u2019m down to 10 suits now. So I gave some away and I sold some. And so with the money that I got from selling the suits, we decided to use that to pay off our debt, got rid of that debt. So that was one of\u00a0the big financial decisions that we decided to make.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:56]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0That was a big emotional purchase for us. So to clear it, it felt good\u00a0in a sense.\u00a0And then we also reduced the suits, but then we just also had more positive outlook on our financial situation, knowing that it has so much potential to be\u00a0so much more in the future. It\u2019d be like, stay on this path and stay focused. And we also check\u00a0in less. Now we checking\u00a0in\u00a0about money probably on a monthly basis as of right now. And it\u2019s been so much less, stressful in a sense.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:24]\u00a0<strong>Devonta:<\/strong>\u00a0It was a great experience,\u00a0and we\u2019re glad we\u00a0got\u00a0to talk to you and you got to give us that reassurance that we\u2019re on the right path and that we\u2019re doing good. And also to not be so down about our finances. And actually have a positive outlook.\u00a0So we really appreciate you and thank you for that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:42]\u00a0<strong>Antonio:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:42]\u00a0<strong>Pam:<\/strong>\u00a0The biggest surprise for me was\u00a0seeing that as the higher earner in our relationship, my instinct to offer to cover most of our expenses could actually be leaving\u00a0Nic\u00a0feeling disempowered.\u00a0So a key takeaway for me has definitely been that I need to step back and let her share the lead on our money decisions.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:01]\u00a0One of the key changes we\u2019ve made is scheduling monthly money reviews. So we actually just had our January review,\u00a0and it was really awesome.\u00a0We pulled up\u00a0Ramit\u2019s list of money dials and we talked about which dials were important to each of us, and we shared examples of what we love spending on and called out which things weren\u2019t a priority to us.\u00a0So that really helped us to agree on a specific amount for our shared guilt-free spending. And now that we know that amount, it has allowed each of us to be creative and brainstorm ways to use it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:33]\u00a0Another key change is that we\u2019re having more future-focused conversations. So we\u2019re talking about financial, legal, healthcare protections that we want to have for our relationship, and we\u2019ve actually set a goal to get those documents drafted this month.\u00a0Ramit pointed out that we have previously struggled with being decisive, so that\u2019s something we\u2019re definitely working on. I just\u00a0want to\u00a0say thank you to Ramit and the entire team for all of the top\u00a0slot\u00a0advice.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:05]\u00a0<strong>Nic:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve\u00a0always been really avoidant\u00a0when it comes to money, but I didn\u2019t recognize how that was translating into my relationship with Pam. And we pride ourselves on functioning as a team.\u00a0And not being an active participant when it came to our shared numbers, I was really leaving her on her own to take the lead, and I was mostly just feeling lucky to be there.\u00a0I\u2019ve fully engaged, often initiating discussions myself, and that has really provided fruitful opportunities to collaborate and dream towards building our\u00a0Rich Life.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:38]\u00a0The\u00a0major sources of financial stress and really shame\u00a0were my student loans and feeling behind in my retirement savings. I\u2019ve increased my contributions to my employer retirement account from\u00a06\u00a0to 16%, and so I\u2019ll be maxing that out this year.\u00a0For my loans,\u00a0I created a plan to pay off my private student loan before the end of the year while my federal loan is in deferment.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:03]\u00a0And since that loan qualifies for public service loan forgiveness, it will be eligible for forgiveness after 75 more payments,\u00a0which means I would be debt-free in a little over seven years. So there\u2019ve been so many small but decisive changes I\u2019ve made since we began this process. And they all add up to me feeling a lot more confident, which is not something that I ever thought I could feel about money.\u00a0And also really optimistic about our future.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/201-new-york-city\/\">Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Today\u2019s episode takes us to New York City, where I sit down with\u00a0not two, but three\u00a0couples live on stage at my\u00a0Money for Couples\u00a0event. First, meet [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-319989","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/319989","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=319989"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/319989\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":319991,"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/319989\/revisions\/319991"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=319989"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=319989"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.etrafficlane.com\/60dollarmiracle\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=319989"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}